Post-Human Worlds as Super Massive Computers

I think it's possible that celestial worlds, that is to say, worlds that are inhabited by gods, or post-humans, are massive super computers. If so, this might correlate well with the simulation argument, in that it would take a computer of enormous size to simulate a universe or universes.

Mormon scripture describes the place where God resides as a giant Urim and Thummim(D&C 130), more on that later. So we have to ask, what is a Urim and Thummim? The Urim and Thummim Joseph was familiar with had a Jaredite origin and should not be confused with ancient Israelite Urim and Thummim; they may or may not have functioned similarly. The Prophet Joseph Smith, Father Abraham and Orson Hyde, who presumably got his information from Joseph or the Three Witnesses, give us descriptions of  Urim and Thummim:

Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book(JS-H).

...and the learned said I cannot but if he would bring the plates they would read it but the Lord had forbid it and he returned to me and gave them to translate and I said I said cannot for I am not learned but the Lord had prepared spectacles for to read the Book ... (History 1832) 

Two transparent stones, clear as crystal, were found with the records. They were called “seers” and were used by the ancients. The manner in which they were used is as follows: These two stones, called Urim and Thummim, in diameter the size of an English crown (coin) but a little thicker, were placed where there was no light. Those using them then offered prayers unto the Lord and the answer appeared written with letters of light on the Urim and Thummim, but disappeared again soon after (Orson Hyde).

And I, Abraham, had the Urim and Thummim, which the Lord my God had given unto me, in Ur of the Chaldees; ...  And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, ... (Abraham).

Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;(D&C 130).

From these descriptions, we can learn that the Urim and Thummim the Prophet Joseph Smith had in his possession where a pair of spectacles which used photography(writing with light), assisted in translating ancient texts, processed information and facilitated communication. A Urim and Thummim is, esentially, a computer, along the lines of a smart phone or VR.

Oculus Rift VR

The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim. This earth, in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ’s(D&C 130, modified). 

D&C 137:4

Nick Bostrum  estimates, that for a computer to realistically simulate the whole of human history, it would need to make about 10^36 operations per second. Another author estimates that a computer the size of a large planet could possibly make 10^42 operations per second. Such a hypothetical mega-computer computer is called a "Jupiter brain".

Another possibility is a "Matrioshka brain". A Matrioshka brain is a hypothetical mega-computer , a type of Dyson sphere. This mega-structure is built around a star, capturing it's energy. The interior of a Matrioshka brain is extremely hot but the exterior is as cold as outer space. The massive amounts of energy derived from a sun, combined with the size of such a massive computer could be used to simulate entire universes. 

The Book of Abraham and Organic Evolution

In one of my favorite quotes, the Prophet Joseph Smith wrote the following to Isaac Galland:

Mormonism is truth, in other words the doctrine of the Latter Day Saints, is truth; for the name Mormon, and Mormonism, was given to us by our enemies, but Latter Day Saints was the real name by which the church was organized. Now sir, you may think that it is a broad assertion that it is truth; but sir, the first and fundamental principle of our holy religion is, that we believe that we have a right to embrace all, and every item of truth, without limitation or without being circumscribed or prohibited by the creeds or superstitious notions of men, or by the dominations of one another, when that truth is clearly demonstrated to our minds, and we have the highest degree of evidence of the same.

Evolution is true therefore it belongs in our religion. Many Mormons still reject organic evolution while ironically embracing the benefits of modern biology, a science who's fundamentals are ultimately based on Darwin's discoveries. I suspect this is because Mormons have, regrettably, been culturally influenced by Evangelical Protestants and their hyper-literal reading of Genesis. This is not a new phenomena, taking cues from the surrounding culture, for we also adopted outsider racist arguments for black slavery in our justifications for denying blacks the priesthood.

Fortunately, we have the Book of Abraham, a sacred revelation that more than makes room for evolution, through the enigmatic creation account in Chapter 4:

And the Gods said: Let us prepare the earth to bring forth grass; the herb yielding seed; the fruit tree yielding fruit, after his kind, whose seed in itself yieldeth its own likeness upon the earth; and it was so, even as they ordered. 

And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth grass from its own seed, and the herb to bring forth herb from its own seed, yielding seed after his kind; and the earth to bring forth the tree from its own seed, yielding fruit, whose seed could only bring forth the same in itself, after his kind; and the Gods saw that they were obeyed. 

And the Gods said: Let us prepare the waters to bring forth abundantly the moving creatures that have life; and the fowl, that they may fly above the earth in the open expanse of heaven.

And the Gods prepared the waters that they might bring forth great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters were to bring forth abundantly after their kind; and every winged fowl after their kind. And the Gods saw that they would be obeyed, and that their plan was good.


And the Gods prepared the earth to bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind; and it was so, as they had said. 

And the Gods organized the earth to bring forth the beasts after their kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after its kind; and the Gods saw they would obey.

Notice that the Gods don't make animals or plants; they prepare the earth to do Their work for Them. I was reminded of these verses when I read the following article on Science Alert. I have posted it here verbatim:

The extent to which evolution incorporates randomness has been debated by scientists throughout history, but a new paper claims the phenomenon may be more 'intelligent' than classical theory acknowledges – and not due to a theological perspective. According to Richard Watson, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Southampton in the UK, evolution can 'learn' from previous experience, which could help explain how a process of random, natural selection can seem to produce such intelligent designs.

 In an opinion piece in Trends in Ecology & Evolution, Watson and co-author Eörs Szathmáry from the Parmenides Foundation in Germany suggest that we can still improve our understanding of how evolution works. We can do this, they say, by encompassing the way learning systems like neural networks develop intelligent behaviours based on previous experience. "Darwin's theory of evolution describes the driving process, but learning theory is not just a different way of describing what Darwin already told us," said Watson. "It expands what we think evolution is capable of. It shows that natural selection is sufficient to produce significant features of intelligent problem-solving." Conventional evolutionary theory describes how random variation and selection is sufficient to provide incremental adaptation as organisms evolve over time.

But according to Watson and Szathmáry, this system isn't incompatible with learning theories that demonstrate how incremental adaptation (such as in a neural network) is sufficient for a system to exhibit what we would call 'intelligent' behaviour. "When we look at the amazing, apparently intelligent designs that evolution produces, it takes some imagination to understand how random variation and selection produced them," said Watson. "But can natural selection explain the suitability of its own processes? That self-referential notion is troubling to conventional evolutionary theory – but easy in learning theory."

 The authors say new kinds of research are already demonstrating this kind of learning evolution, including selection in asexual and sexual populations with Bayesian learning and the evolution of ecological relationships with distributed memory models. "Learning theory enables us to formalise how evolution changes its own processes over evolutionary time," said Watson. "For example, by evolving the organisation of development that controls variation, the organisation of ecological interactions that control selection or the structure of reproductive relationships that control inheritance – natural selection can change its own ability to evolve.

"If scientists can encompass this kind of learning theory into how they study evolution, the authors say we'll be able to solve evolutionary puzzles in new ways and enjoy greater insight into how evolution produces its amazing results. "If evolution can learn from experience, and thus improve its own ability to evolve over time, this can demystify the awesomeness of the designs that evolution produces," said Watson. "Natural selection can accumulate knowledge that enables it to evolve smarter. That's exciting because it explains why biological design appears to be so intelligent."

The Gods Were Like Us Once; We Can Be Like Them Too.

"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may be."; these are the timeless words of President Lorenzo Snow. Blasphemy! Anathema! Those Mormons think they're gonna get a planet! These are the things people love to say in response to this sublime truth. Now, this is a strange statement if one believes in the god of Aristotle, an unmoved moving, first cause of all other causes, without body, passion or parts. But that isn't what Mormons believe about God. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God himself was once as we are now and sits enthroned in yonder heavens; that is the great secret! Recently, a similar view of such a possibility has been echoed in the world of philosophy; it's called the Simulation Argument.



The Simulation Argument argues "that at least one of the following propositions is true: (1) the human species is very likely to go extinct before reaching a 'posthuman' stage; (2) any posthuman civilization is extremely unlikely to run a significant number of simulations of their evolutionary history (or variations thereof); (3) we are almost certainly living in a computer simulation. It follows that the belief that there is a significant chance that we will one day become posthumans who run ancestor-simulations is false, unless we are currently living in a simulation. A number of other consequences of this result are also discussed".



The Simulation Argument has led to an argument for the existence of Gods,as they are described in Mormonism, the New God Argument. The New God Argument goes, as follows: "If we will not go extinct before becoming posthumans then, given assumptions consistent with contemporary science and technological trends, posthumans probably already exist, are more benevolent than us and created our world. If prehumans are probable then posthumans probably already exist. If posthumans probably increased faster in destructive than defensive capacity then posthumans probably are more benevolent than us. If posthumans probably create many worlds like those in their past then posthumans probably created our world. The only alternative is that we probably will go extinct before becoming posthumans."

It was Brigham Young who said: "So it will be when, as the Scriptures foretell, 'the elements shall melt with fervent heat.' The Lord Almighty will send forth his angels, who are well instructed in chemistry, and they will separate the elements and make new combinations thereof, and the whole heavens will be a sheet of fire." As someone who believes that the technological advancements we are making, and will yet make, are gifts from God, leading us to a Millennial and eventual Celestial state of being, this is all very fun and fascinating.

The Glory of God is Intelligence

"So it will be when, as the Scriptures foretell, 'the elements shall melt with fervent heat.' The Lord Almighty will send forth his angels, who are well instructed in chemistry, and they will separate the elements and make new combinations thereof, and the whole heavens will be a sheet of fire."(Brigham Young).

"The great temple of science must be erected upon the solid foundations of everlasting truth; its towering spires must mount upward, reaching higher and still higher, until crowned with the glory and presence of Him, who is Eternal"(Orson Pratt),

"The study of science is the study of something eternal. If we study astronomy, we study the works of God. If we study chemistry, geology, optics, or any other branch of science, every new truth we come to the understanding of is eternal; it is a part of the great system of universal truth. It is truth that exists throughout universal nature; and God is the dispenser of all truth -- scientific, religious, and political"(Orson Pratt).

"Every discovery in science and art, that is really true and useful to mankind, has been given by direct revelation from God, though but few acknowledge it."(Brigham Young).

"Yet I will say with regard to miracles, there is no such thing save to the ignorant -- that is, there never was a result wrought out by God or by any of His creatures without there being a cause for it. There may be results, the causes of which we do not see or understand, and what we call miracles are no more than this -- they are the results or effects of causes hidden from our understandings"(Brigham Young).

"The origin of life whether human or inferior, must be lodged in some character whom I have not seen! Follow it back, no matter whether it be for six thousand years, six millions, six million millions, or billions of years, the figures and numbers are immaterial, I must have come from some source, my natural philosophy teaches me this. But, leaving the natural philosophy of the child free from false tradition, let us inquire. What does the philosophy of the Christian sects, or many of them, not all, teach? “God made the world in six days, out of nothing!” This is very wrong; no child should be taught any such dogma. God never did make a world out of nothing; He never will, He never can!"(Brigham Young).

"In these respects we differ, from the Christian world, for our religion will not clash with or contradict the facts of science in any particular"(Brigham Young).

"The idea that the religion of Christ is one thing, and science is another, is a mistaken idea, for there is no true religion without true science, and consequently there is no true science without true religion"(Brigham Young).

Moses and the Drake Equation

"That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God"(D&C 76:24).

 "And were it possible that man could number the particles of the earth, yea, millions of earths like this, it would not be a beginning to the number of thy creations; and thy curtains are stretched out still; and yet thou art there, and thy bosom is there; and also thou art just; thou art merciful and kind forever"(Moses 7:30).

"And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten"(Moses 1:33).